Password: Log In:

Notices

Car Action World's Fastest RC Car Challenge! What car are you going to build to break the world speed record for RC cars?

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #226  
Old 05-26-2004, 12:18 AM
Chris LaPanse Chris LaPanse is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 04-18-2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,576
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CENthasizer
Ok, i dont have a problem with the Cali location (i live in Cal ) but looking at the article on "the need for speed" with the TC3 and the 111mph L30, i would like to quote

"Team Associated’s objectives with this car were to break through the 100mph barrier and to possibly set a new overall RC world speed record. As expected, the Team met its objectives by putting in back-to-back 100mph-plus runs. It wasn’t until the car blazed past the radar at 111mph and wiped out on the large, banked corner that they decided to call it a day. After the run, Cliff reported that the motor still had plenty of revs left and could have gone even faster if space had allowed."

IF SPACE HAD ALLOWED, this too was at the Irwindal speed way right? I just wanted to bring that up not to cause trouble, but these guys who were trying to set a speed record could have gone even faster, if space had allowed.
Isn't this the same location where some full size cars do more than 200mph? Then how would 111 mph be too fast for the space? I think that the problem was radio range, rather than space, which means that it does not matter how large of an area you have if it runs out of radio range before it runs out of area. If it is a space problem, then I don't see why.
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 05-26-2004, 01:00 AM
Soupisgoodfood Soupisgoodfood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-25-2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm not familiar with Lithium Polymer, other than I know it's lightweight and moldable, and that my iPod has one . But I know that LiIon has a high internal resistance, which are why they aren't used in RC car racing--they blow up. Do LiPo have a lower internal resistance than LiIon, lower than NiCad? Has anyone considered this?
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 05-26-2004, 01:42 AM
DaFF DaFF is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 09-30-2002
Location: Toulouse
Posts: 625
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wrong.

Lithium Ion can be used for r/c car.

As a matter of fact, Konion released 2 month ago some Lithium Ion that look like regular cells ( hence round with an aluminum enclosure ) that could be used without problems in cars. Because of the alum enclosure and some kind of internal over pressure valve, they are explosion proof !

Read the specs here ( sorry, in German, but you can get the idea...)

http://www.elektromodellflug.de/konion-test.htm

AS far as internal resistance goes, you are correct in saying the Lithium Polymer have a lower resistance than Lithium Ion, Nicad and Nimh resistance being lower than any Lithium cells.

DFF
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 05-26-2004, 01:52 AM
DualBL DualBL is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 05-07-2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 727
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
about the capped tires.
from what I understand, there's actually material that's woven on the inside of the rubber, and that prevents the tire from ballooning. I have no idea, but that's what I'm guessing.
-Nick
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 05-26-2004, 01:59 AM
Soupisgoodfood Soupisgoodfood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-25-2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks DaFF. Interesting.

Still, has anyone acctually tried them in a high-power set-up like this?
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 05-26-2004, 07:14 AM
Soupisgoodfood Soupisgoodfood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-25-2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A refinement of my original idea. Dump the 8 motors and use 4 brushless, directly connected to 4 front diff housings of a shaft-driven on-road touring car.
All wheel steering: At high speeds the rear end will steer in the same direction (but not as much), and at low speeds it would go the opposite for more steering.

I whipped up an image below from an old 3D modeling project I did (an RS4 Pro ).

Last edited by Soupisgoodfood; 05-26-2004 at 07:26 AM. Reason: minor correction
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 05-26-2004, 09:02 AM
H-Trainer H-Trainer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 09-09-2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DFF, those Lithium Ion cells made by Kontronik look interesting, but they were tested with up to 18 A current and can only handle 22 A temporarily. I'd say that's too little current for powerful brushless motors! Pushed NiMH cells can provide up to 100 A, I've heard, and modern brushless motors can use that power (2+ kW).
So, I'd say you'd get a high voltage but not enough current. I don't think you'd need more than 36 V or so, but you'd need high current.

Anyhow, I hope we'll get good coverage with pictures, stories and video, so we get entertained you this speed challenge
__________________
Greetings, H-Trainer

www.H-Trainer.ch.vu

www.SwissWPR.ch.vu
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 05-26-2004, 09:33 AM
cretin cretin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-2003
Location: my happy place
Posts: 656
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
that looks nice, but a bit over 24". why not just use 2 brushless on each of two diff/suspension housings? run the motors towards the middle of the chassis, and pile batteries all around them. if you were really nuts, you could solder/weld the cells together and make them the chassis, or at least a stressed member
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 05-26-2004, 01:28 PM
DaFF DaFF is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 09-30-2002
Location: Toulouse
Posts: 625
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey Trainer, long time no see Hu ?

Anyway, yes, of course they pump out only 22 A max, but like for any Lithium cell, you need to hook them in parrallel to increase max Amp draw !!!

Like a pack of 8 cells, 4S2P type - 4 cells in serie x 2 in parrallel, is sort of what I am using in my 1/10 scale brushless.

With this setup, you can have 14.8 volt and 44 Amp max, that's close to 700 Watt, which is enough for powering a highspeed 1/10 sedan.

I think you get the idea !

DFF
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 05-26-2004, 06:59 PM
Soupisgoodfood Soupisgoodfood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-25-2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I bit long at the moment, but I hear they're changing the max length to include 1/5 and 1/4 scale cars.

The idea with the 8 wheels is stability and distribution of load I guess. Plus it's less likey to crash and burn if a tire blows apart Plus a long, heavy car has less chance of lifting off, which means it can be designed with less drag as you don't need to generate as much downforce.

Since current might be an issue, I though it would be best to use more smaller, high-rpm motors, then they can share the load, and hopefully not blow the ESCs.
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 05-30-2004, 05:13 AM
Mike Keeney Mike Keeney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-30-2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 144
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My 2¢ fwiw.

The openness of the contest is attractive. I don't see any need for requiring a second pass because the rules clearly state the car must survive the run. Suicide runs are a DQ. All out speed is the goal and I think every contestant should have the opportunity to make multiple passes. This would be fair to the folks who lay down a good number but lose control at the end and crash. I think it would be fair to limit the number of official passes (perhaps 3) a car can make. Best time on any run is what you're scored on. After all, it's only about speed.

As far as the question of enough room to make a really high speed run, I suppose you could start somewhere between turn 3 and 4 and trap about a third of the way down the front straight. That should give the fastest cars enough room to get slowed down enough to make a controllable entry into turn 1.

Where I have the problem is with the radar gun. It is impossible to constrain a radar gun to measure within a 10' length. If you're going to measure over a specific distance the only way to accurately do it is by measuring the time it takes to traverse the 10'. Pulling the trigger on a radar gun would produce inconsistant results. Personally, I'd want to be measured at the last ¼" before stepping out of the box.

Minor point. 200mph on a short track? Ain't gonna happen. 100+, sure, but 200 is hard to do, even on a superspeedway.

I'm looking forward to this project. If I can get it together I'll be bringing a fully blown (for real), fire breathing, nitro burning, ground pounding, V8, funny car.

I'm so looking forward to this.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Keeney; 05-30-2004 at 05:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 05-30-2004, 11:18 AM
Grant Tokumi Grant Tokumi is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 06-14-2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,067
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm assuming they will be using something more precise than a radar gun. I think rc dragsters have a unit they can use to track top speed as it passes the finish line based on time between a given distance.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 05-31-2004, 02:06 AM
Combatcm's Avatar
Combatcm Combatcm is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 11-26-2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,157
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Make your suicide 150mph rocket car, make it blow up at the end, put the video of it on the internet, brag.
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 05-31-2004, 04:16 PM
CENthasizer CENthasizer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-06-2004
Location: Sacramento Ca. USA!
Posts: 391
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, Ok, I keep hearing all this talk about how electric is going to win, blah blah blah, where are all the nitro junkies out there? Stick up for us! I would, but i'm a new member to here and to nitro...sorry.

What i am waiting for is someone to make a V-2 nitro engine, i dont actually know if that would kick ass, or just suck up more fuel.
Anyway let me know what you guys think!
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 05-31-2004, 10:36 PM
Dragger Dragger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 08-01-2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 150
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry man electric is for speed, I think. And I don't see what others do with brushless, brushed motors are just as good.
Reply With Quote
  #241  
Old 05-31-2004, 11:03 PM
Dragger Dragger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 08-01-2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 150
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BTW, does tire size matter? And i'm putting a Sirio .21 in my Type SS, probably 160-170MPH, j/k.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 05-31-2004, 11:47 PM
rpmmaxxed rpmmaxxed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 08-17-2003
Location: c-bad, california
Posts: 671
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
larger tires have the same effect as gearing up.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 06-01-2004, 01:13 AM
crank throw wei crank throw wei is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 11-24-2002
Location: Detroit-yeah,we make cars
Posts: 1,185
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CENthasizer
Ok, Ok, I keep hearing all this talk about how electric is going to win, blah blah blah, where are all the nitro junkies out there? Stick up for us!
Well I think nitro has an equal chance of winning, but the BLs have done a lot to level the playing field.A nitro set up will be complex because of transmission and cooling issues.BLs because of battery issues.I think it's a very tough call,at this point,who has the advantage.I own both,but personally,I'm "imagineering" a nitro.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 06-01-2004, 03:12 AM
Speedtester Speedtester is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 02-17-2002
Location: Newport, Rhode Island, U.S.A
Posts: 1,443
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragger
Sorry man electric is for speed, I think. And I don't see what others do with brushless, brushed motors are just as good.

I hope your joking about brushed motor's being just as good.
__________________
-----====Speedtester====-----
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 06-01-2004, 05:01 AM
Dragger Dragger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 08-01-2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 150
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A 2 turn for speed maybe, but a 12 turn brushless is the same as a 10 turn brushed.
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 06-01-2004, 07:29 AM
racerrandy racerrandy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 01-23-2003
Location: kansas city
Posts: 142
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Everyone is always comparing bl's to roar legal brushed motors. If you use the same neo mags,thick machined cans,special arms and things like that, the olny advantage bl's have is the maintenence. And for the speed record guys will not be worried about maintenence. You are gonna see some cool things at this event.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 06-01-2004, 08:11 AM
thefasttrack thefasttrack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-02-2004
Location: miami
Posts: 180
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Keeney
My 2¢ fwiw.

I'm looking forward to this project. If I can get it together I'll be bringing a fully blown (for real), fire breathing, nitro burning, ground pounding, V8, funny car.

I'm so looking forward to this.

Mike
yah a conely pricision motor seen them not a big deal but are soooo cool
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 06-01-2004, 08:18 AM
thefasttrack thefasttrack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-02-2004
Location: miami
Posts: 180
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
heres a picture
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 06-01-2004, 02:48 PM
Interstate Interstate is offline
Certifiable RC Zone Addict
 
Join Date: 05-18-2001
Location: albuquerque, santafe
Posts: 1,761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They also make a supercharged V10. For 10 thousand dollars.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 06-01-2004, 05:15 PM
Mike Keeney Mike Keeney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: 05-30-2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 144
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is somewhat close to what I would bring. The current plan is to design a set of dual cam OHV heads. Perhaps a hemi cc if there's room.

These engines already rap up to around 8K with 1" diameter pistons. I'm in the process of designing a new motor that will create some real horsepower. Hopefully everything will be done by the time the contest starts.

One of the design goals is to hold the price of the engine to around $3-$4K retail. If we can do that then I think we might have something we can sell. If it gets much higher than that I don't think we would have much of a market.

I want to offer a complete package in either kit or fully assembled. Everything depends on cost. If this works I would like to develop several types of models, cars, funny cars, dragsters, monster trucks, etc.

I looked at the Conley website. He does awesome work. The Cobra is sweet.
It looks as if our engine is considerably larger than the Conley one though.

Cheers,
Mike


Last edited by Mike Keeney; 06-01-2004 at 05:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

»Upcoming Races & Events



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Designed by: vBSkinworks



Privacy Policy | Terms of Use
© 2013 Air Age Media 88 Danbury Road, Wilton, CT 06897 (203) 431-9000  USA