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Car Action World's Fastest RC Car Challenge! What car are you going to build to break the world speed record for RC cars?

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  #151  
Old 05-18-2004, 02:54 AM
Gyro Gearloose Gyro Gearloose is offline
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The wind at track level(ground level) will be a huge factor. And yes, a 10 mph tailwind at ground level will translate into about that speed with the car.

The number one problem at those speeds will be aerodynamic friction(wind resistance).
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  #152  
Old 05-18-2004, 02:58 AM
crank throw wei crank throw wei is offline
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Gyro Gearloose: But don't you think that it would be impossible to cover for every enviromental situation?You have to draw the line somewhere to keep things moving,and keep it interesting.And remember,if you have to go against a 10 MPH wind,most likely,so will everyone else.
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  #153  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:00 AM
Grant Tokumi Grant Tokumi is offline
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Quote:
And yes, a 10 mph tailwind at ground level will translate into about that speed with the car.
ok.
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  #154  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:04 AM
Gyro Gearloose Gyro Gearloose is offline
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If weather was consistant, crank, it would be fine, wind is rarely consistant.

Like I said, suppose the guy in front of you had just ran and had a 20mph tailwind through the traps, it's now your turn and the wind has just died down to nothing?
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  #155  
Old 05-18-2004, 09:17 AM
cretin cretin is offline
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that's why most sanctioning bodies make you back up your run within a certain time frame in order to set a true record.
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  #156  
Old 05-18-2004, 12:28 PM
crushed crushed is offline
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Quote:
Steve- This is Jason from TRX. Could you send me a PM with your email addy, I need to ask ya a question about the rules!
somebodies go an idea.c'mon, you can tell me. i wont tell anybody well... whats the idea. please tell me

fine...

no doughnut for you


im going to make the worlds fastest r/c car w/o your help. heres what im gonna do, im going to take a *retarded* monkey and hop it up and make *dookey* for the tranny wheels and electronics then beat the **** out of it so that it has to be **** stoned* to death before it will even blink

i wont be entering so you can try and steal my fictitious idea that i made up in 5 min. while waiting for the bell to ring. let me know if you figure out what it says (only one swear word. doughnut to the one that finds it)
p/s HALO RULES

later
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  #157  
Old 05-18-2004, 12:47 PM
mwcet8k mwcet8k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cretin
that's why most sanctioning bodies make you back up your run within a certain time frame in order to set a true record.
Exactly. Every run should require two passes in opposing directions within a certain time frame.
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  #158  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:21 PM
cretin cretin is offline
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i bet this will be a learning experience for more than just the drivers and builders.
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  #159  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:49 PM
GForce GForce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterV
The speed trap will be very short, like ten feet, and all we care about is the maximum velocity. Not average speed over a longer distance, not an average of two or more runs.

Peter:

How long is the straight away before entering the 10 foot speed trap?

I remembered this is the format for IDEA speed run but instead of half-mile oval, they use a 300 foot straight away and 10 foot speed trap & the end. (total of 310 feet, start from dead stop)

Currently running a Dragmaster funny car & planning on entering the WFRRCC but may reconsider a different car (pan 10L etc....) depending on spec of the track.

When will we know the schedule? Sign up? information.

Please reply on this forum or email me. Thank You!
Looking forward entering this competiton.
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  #160  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:14 PM
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StevePond StevePond is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyro Gearloose
You don't think that's a huge variable, Peter? It's not like everyone will have the same tail or head wind, what happens when one guy gets a 20mph tailwind and the wind is down to 5mph through the traps for the next guy?
I think I can help to answer this one. I don't think this needs to turn into an uptight event where everyone is micro-analyzing everything. It's void of many rules and proceedures to avoid this very problem. This is supposed to be something where a bunch of people can go out and have a lot of fun with cars that go VERY fast. Think of it as parking lot bragging rights, with a much bigger parking lot.

If we were to try and address the issue of wind, then what would happen if the winds suddenly shift and slow you down? Do we let you do the back-up run in the same direction? What about temperature and humidity for the nitro-powered vehicles? Should you get a do-over if the temps climb 5 degrees and rob some of your horsepower? These are rhetorical questions to point out the fact that you can't control the uncontrollable. I'm sure we'll make every REASONABLE effort to give everyone a fighting chance, but the nature of this type of competition means that you're at the mercy of the elements as much as anyone else. If you get a helping hand from a tail wind, chances are everyone else will too. If you're the only one that gets it, call it a gift from God. This track is surrounded by bleachers and walls, so the extent to which anyone will benefit from an abberation in the weather is virtually non-existant.
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  #161  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:29 PM
Gyro Gearloose Gyro Gearloose is offline
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Your right, Steve, it's your ball and you make the rules.

I just happen to think that's the easy way out of a serious unforseen problem(I think it's a crock). And to top it off, you're expecting a lot people to drop serious cash("For the glory" of being fastest.), yet you won't spend any decent resources for a suitable way to time the speeds.

I'm not trying to stir it up, I was extremely interested in reading about this, seeing the pics and drooling over the whole show.

Until your last post.
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  #162  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:35 PM
Interstate Interstate is offline
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Sounds like excuses for why a vehicle won't go any faster than anybody elses. but the weather, but the wind, wah wah wah. What do you think should be done? How are these secondary variables supposed to be fixed?

This really is for glory. What else were you expecting? A prize for 5000 bucks? A new car? Where would this come from? Think about the gumball race: these guys are in half million dollar cars racing 3000 miles, for the glory of saying they were in the gumball.
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  #163  
Old 05-18-2004, 03:36 PM
Craps Craps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePond
I think I can help to answer this one. I don't think this needs to turn into an uptight event where everyone is micro-analyzing everything. It's void of many rules and proceedures to avoid this very problem. This is supposed to be something where a bunch of people can go out and have a lot of fun with cars that go VERY fast. Think of it as parking lot bragging rights, with a much bigger parking lot.

If we were to try and address the issue of wind, then what would happen if the winds suddenly shift and slow you down? Do we let you do the back-up run in the same direction? What about temperature and humidity for the nitro-powered vehicles? Should you get a do-over if the temps climb 5 degrees and rob some of your horsepower? These are rhetorical questions to point out the fact that you can't control the uncontrollable. I'm sure we'll make every REASONABLE effort to give everyone a fighting chance, but the nature of this type of competition means that you're at the mercy of the elements as much as anyone else. If you get a helping hand from a tail wind, chances are everyone else will too. If you're the only one that gets it, call it a gift from God. This track is surrounded by bleachers and walls, so the extent to which anyone will benefit from an abberation in the weather is virtually non-existant.
For FUN!!!

Then why do we have to wait over year to do this?

Why not this June?
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  #164  
Old 05-18-2004, 04:28 PM
DaFF DaFF is offline
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Jizzz, I agree 100% with you, Steve:

It's a HOBBY, some ppl needs to gets a life, we are all supposed to enjoy this, not try to win big box or start whinning about the rules.

Man, that's the main reason why I don't get along very well with some race ppl, they take everything down way too serious, it then becomes BORING

Steve, keep it plain and simple, just for the dummies like me.

And the more the better, so open this contest to everyone (and more LoL)

Keep-up the good job !

DFF
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  #165  
Old 05-18-2004, 04:40 PM
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Gyro - OK, but at the same time please understand that we're not trying to stir up any negative sentiment, I just don't think it's possible to cover EVERY scenario in which someone won't have EXACTLY the same opportunity to run the fastest possible speed. There are many things that can come up that a thousand different rules couldn't cover. It's not a cop-out or a "crock" as you put it, it's just being realistic about things that are totally out of your control. It's not a lot of extra affort to require a pass in the other direction, we just have to consider ALL aspects of implimenting another rule, good and bad.

Think about what happens if we impliment a two-way rule and you go out and run a speed of 160 mph on your second run with no detectable wind to effect the speed one way or another. But, by some twist of fate, your speed control blows and you aren't able to complete the "back up" to solidify your speed. That means that someone who ran 90 in both directions wins over you who ran 160 but you weren't able to make the back-up run. Does that mean that your car didn't go 160? Of course not, it only means that you weren't able to complete a back-up run. I think we'd rather recognize the speed of 160 because it really happened. See what I mean? For every problem you think you're solving by adding another rule, you create another because that same rule will exclude a good result, all because you were trying to eliminate a scenario that's unlikely to effect the overall outcome anyway. The K.I.S.S. principle comes to mind. At least the K.I.S. part...
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  #166  
Old 05-18-2004, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craps
For FUN!!!

Then why do we have to wait over year to do this?

Why not this June?
I'm sure a lot of people would like to have the time to prepare a car, and we need time to get all the logistics hammered out. This should give us and everyone else plenty of time to do whatever it is they want to do.
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  #167  
Old 05-18-2004, 05:04 PM
mwcet8k mwcet8k is offline
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Steve, I agree that the event should be kept relatively simple. However, I'm basing my recommendation of opposing runs on those of 1:1 scale speed records. I think the rule for "real" cars is that an opposing run must be made within 1 hour of the first run.

Anyway, the event should be for fun. No question about that. Obviously, the primary objective of 1:1 scale speed runs is not fun. But when you have people spending big money and when a world record is on the line, people in general will take that more seriously, even if it's radio controlled speed records we're talking about. Nothing we can do about it. That's just human nature. My .02 cents.
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  #168  
Old 05-18-2004, 05:56 PM
wcoyote_racer wcoyote_racer is offline
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No matter what type of drive system used (shaft, belt, direct whatever), you better make sure it's a free wheeling as possible. One is for accelleration. You can't get the top end that you want if your drive system is so tight that is actually scrubs speed while it's getting there. It will not only be about the equipment but finer details like that that wins.
I saw someone say how a blower powered car couldn't do much. Not true. I have a friend that built a hovercraft with four blowers total. It would go 100MPH over land. And it was roughly 1/8 scale size. Never had a large enough place to test it all out on water without having too many boats, etc in the way. But I think that is a moot point for the moment. Especially since we are talking can motors at this race. I wonder if any new body shapes will come out of this. As far as aerodynamic shapes go, a shark's body is the most aerodynamic shape used in the real world, but probably not the best mathematical one.
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  #169  
Old 05-18-2004, 06:08 PM
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StevePond StevePond is offline
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*Puts on foil hat to translate*
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  #170  
Old 05-18-2004, 06:26 PM
Chris LaPanse Chris LaPanse is offline
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As far as aerodynamics, about the most aerodynamic of the RC vehicles is the current record holding boat. It has the same power system as last year when it went 102, and it gained almost 20mph from aerodynamics alone:
I'd say that that is about as aerodynamically optimized as it's going to get in RC. Also, you are right that you cannot control every variable, but the wind is easy enough to at least slightly control using a two way system. Look at every other straightaway record in the book, RC or full size, and you will see that it is two way. You should really consider this to make the competition more fair. Good luck to all that enter the competition, and I can't wait to see some videos.
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  #171  
Old 05-18-2004, 07:21 PM
Interstate Interstate is offline
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Hey steve, could you keep us posted as to how many people sign up for the contest, especially the team and company sign ups???
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  #172  
Old 05-18-2004, 07:31 PM
crank throw wei crank throw wei is offline
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Steve Pond: Thanks for Keeping It Simple....uh.....Sir!

Will a provision be made for a rain date,do you imagine?
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  #173  
Old 05-18-2004, 08:30 PM
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StevePond StevePond is offline
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Crank - I have to imagine we could set it up for a Saturday and save Sunday as the rain date. That's also one of the reasons for running the event in CA - it hardly ever rains in June. Not sure what the dates are going to be yet, but I'm sure as soon as it's all buttoned up, we can post that info. Good call on the rain date.
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  #174  
Old 05-18-2004, 09:04 PM
FlashLCD33 FlashLCD33 is offline
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Wow.. it's almost like Gyro wants you guys (Steve) to build a giant indoor dome with exact weather settings so nobody loses that .01 MPH.

Ok, this is suppost to be a fun event. It's about who can build a land rocket to try to beat everybody else's.. it's not like anybody is going to win 10 million dollars over the deal. Who cares if there is a small temperature difference and wind difference between runs, it's all about fun.
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  #175  
Old 05-18-2004, 11:49 PM
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Well, I know it's coming from the right place, wanting everyone to have a fair shake, so I don't hold it against anyone for having an opinion. We're all for making the extra effort if it's going to make a difference; I just don't have the opinion that a back-up run is a statistical necessity. In fact, it may create more confusion that it does clarity.
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